#64001 - 06/14/07 06:07 AM
Re: Dive physiology help..
[Re: sst]
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Old Wife
Expert Advisor
Registered: 02/21/03
Posts: 2302
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
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That is weird, then. Good luck with it!
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#64016 - 06/14/07 02:01 PM
Re: Dive physiology help..
[Re: Old Wife]
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sst
Member
Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 483
Loc: Texas
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Ok - managed to get accepted.. Admins emailed me that I slipped thru the cracks while being spam proofed.. So i'm on the road to hoepfully figuring out what my wife's issues are along with a few questions about my own accident..
Thanks everyone..
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#64035 - 06/15/07 07:53 AM
Re: Dive physiology help..
[Re: sst]
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Old Wife
Expert Advisor
Registered: 02/21/03
Posts: 2302
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
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Excellent, sst! Can you let us know if you find out anything interesting? (I love learning about medical stuff). Thanks!
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#64039 - 06/15/07 08:40 AM
Re: Dive physiology help..
[Re: Old Wife]
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sst
Member
Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 483
Loc: Texas
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Old wife - Sure.. So far, things seem to really be pointing toward what's called Raynaud's phenomenon.. In my opinion, from what I've seen symptom-wise, that would be the first place to start looking as her hands and feet went numb on descent, which triggered the other symptoms of panic attack.. Here's a link explaining Raynaud's, although not as it pertains to dive medicine.. thanks for you help and interest..
http://www.niams.nih.gov/hi/topics/raynaud/ar125fs.htm
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#64043 - 06/15/07 12:21 PM
Re: Dive physiology help..
[Re: sst]
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spotbeagle
Member
Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 358
Loc: California
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Ahhh. . . Raynauds. A very interesting condition.
In the past it was suspected that I had this condition, although I never was evaluated by a physician at the time. My fingers especially, but also my toes, if they got even slightly cold, would quickly turn blue, then white, would be tingly and numb. So much so that it was painful, and painful in returning to normal. Symptoms were very classic to what is described in the link you posted up, sst. This went on for many years. I was eventually placed on some steroid medication for another condition, and I now haven't seen these symptoms since. I do try not to let myself get too cold, since this was definitely a trigger for me.
I haven't had anything like that related to a "panic attack" or such as you described happening with your wife. But, back to the idea of being cold, even though the waters of FP are quite warm, I'm wondering that just the prolonged water exposure (and cooler temperatures as the diver descends) in a dive might be causing her extremities to feel cold, and trigger the vessel restriction, numbness, etc. Does she wear insulated booties and gloves when she dives? Maybe that would help.
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#64044 - 06/15/07 12:37 PM
Re: Dive physiology help..
[Re: spotbeagle]
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sst
Member
Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 483
Loc: Texas
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Spotbeagle - thanks for the words and info.. and by the way we have two beagles ourselves if I haven't mentioned that before..
I believe my wife's panic attack was more due to being between 40 and 80 feet deep under water, and feeling numbness etc.. Under water, knowing that you are susceptible to drowning if you pass out, can cause a panic attack.. I'm HOPING that the numbness caused her breathing probems and subsequent panic attack. If its the other way around, we have real issues..
Yes the waters in FP are quite warm - actually at times warmer than the Caribbean waters she's dove for the last 9 years (16 for me) at around the 85 degree F mark.. In reading the article (and other articles) Raynauds phenomenon can also be triggered by stress. What we are looking at now is whether it can be triggered by water pressure at depth, which definitely sounds possible because the capillaries in your body are constricted at depth on dives = possible trigger of Raynaud's..
The diving in Rangiroa is much more difficult than in BB - violent waters in a zodiac in Rangi vs calm waters in a regular boat in BB.. That may have attributed to her stress level as well, which could have triggered her symptoms in Rangi. Her symptoms in BB were much less severe - enough that she didn't need to surface. The diving where we just came from is fairly harsh with large waves in a small boat. That and worrying about her possible returning symptoms could have stressed her out enough to trigger Raynauds this year..
Yes she does wear dive booties and has traditionally worn gloves, but did not wear gloves last year or on this year's first dive. She has begun taking an aspirin every day to help thin her blood until she can get a test run for Raynaud's.. There are medicines available to treat Raynauds, if needed, but hopefully taking aspirin and wearing gloves may do the trick.. First step from here appears to be a full physical exam with emphasis on Raynauds.. If that turns out to be the culprit, then at least we'll know how to treat it. Thanks again...
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#64045 - 06/15/07 01:15 PM
Re: Dive physiology help..
[Re: sst]
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spotbeagle
Member
Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 358
Loc: California
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Two beagles!!!! Are you nuts :) I grew up having a beagle (dad had them too). Had a beagle most recently up until the week before we departed for FP, when I had to put my 12 year old guy down. Now all I have is a dalmatian.
Hopefully, it turns out to be nothing serious that would prevent your wife diving. I haven't learned to dive yet, don't know if I ever will (not a great swimmer) but am having fun getting the hang of snorkeling, and there is so much too see when snorkeling in FP.
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#64047 - 06/15/07 01:29 PM
Re: Dive physiology help..
[Re: spotbeagle]
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sst
Member
Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 483
Loc: Texas
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Spotbeagle - yeah we've got two Beagle girls and they are a handful, but the best things that ever happened to us..
Actually its kind of a fallacy that you have to be a great swimmer to dive. It certainly helps, and they do (at least did) make you swim several laps at a pool, but if you can snorkel, you can pretty much dive. Same thing except under water.. Yeah I hope her issues don't keep her from diving either - I wouldn't feel right diving without her. Of course my own issues may eventually keep me from diving as well - but we'll just try to cross these bridges as they come..
Thanks again and take care,
Steve
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#64052 - 06/15/07 03:16 PM
Re: Dive physiology help..
[Re: sst]
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Old Wife
Expert Advisor
Registered: 02/21/03
Posts: 2302
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
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Yes, I'm familiar with Raynauld's, sst. I never would have put that together with diving in the tropics because I've only known it to be triggered by the cold (not stress), but now that you've pointed that out, it makes sense. One thing about having symptoms from stress is the symptoms themselves can give you more stress, as you're wondering about your wife. If she finds out it is Raynauld's, just knowing this isn't something life-threatening might very well reduce the symptoms. Perhaps some training in stress management might help, too (similar to techniques for people who experience panic attacks). I doubt they'd want to medicate her while scuba diving (you want all of your senses about you), but there are techniques to learn to control anxiety attacks if she's interested.
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#64082 - 06/18/07 05:52 AM
Re: Dive physiology help..
[Re: Old Wife]
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sst
Member
Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 483
Loc: Texas
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Old wife - yeah we're just confused because she's dove for nine years with no problems before in colder waters and under some stressful conditions.. Maybe if it is Raynaud's, its gotten prgoressively worse to where its now manifesting itself in her dives.. We've still got to set up an appointment and run some tests for it and other things.. We discussed her issues more this weekend and I worked up a possible hypothesis of what is happening with ehr, but there's no telling if I'm right.. However, some of her other issues may or may not point to Raynaud's as being the prime culprit.. one thing about dive medicine - its extremely innacurate and precise and varies from diver to diver..
Hopefully this will be an easy fix, but I can also forsee us having our hands full. The biggest problem is that there is nowhere local to dive to test out different "cures" to see if they help. I'm hoping we can hook her up with a few hyperbaric chamber rides (which simulate diving) so we can see if whatever we try to help her works.. More as it develops.. Thanks again..
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